Ep 89: Alternatives to Professional HOA Management – Community Financials

Russell Munz 0:00
And that’s one of the main things we hear about all the time, is it’s difficult to recruit people to be on the board, and then people feel, you know, I’m using other people’s terminology, but it feel like a life sentence. They get off the board because nobody else will volunteer. Well, if Doing this helps to, you know, alleviate that, so that other people can get involved in being on the board, but in a way that’s not so you know, not, not so difficult.

Announcer 0:24
HOA Insights is brought to you by five companies that care about board members, association, insights and marketplace Association, reserves, community, financials, Hoa invest and Kevin Davis, Insurance Services. You’ll find links to their websites and social media in the show notes.

Robert Nordlund 0:40
Welcome back to Hoa insights, common sense for common areas. I’m Robert Nordlund. I’m here today for episode number 89 for a conversation with Russell Munz from community financials, one of our sponsors, Russell is in the enviable position of seeing the entire community association industry as an insider, helping associations all across the country monitor their cash and their cash flow. He regularly has some great insights, some that he was sharing with me right before we started the recording, and I’m eager to share his perspective today on the many options that are in between self management and full professional management. I shared the opinion with him that too many associations. Think it’s just one or the other, and there’s actually a spectrum of possibilities in between. Well, I hope you enjoyed last week’s episode number 88 with regular co host and insurance expert Kevin Davis on cyber threats at community associations. Before that episode, have to admit, I didn’t know that there was going to be much I was going to contribute to that conversation that was applicable to our audience, but I found out it’s an absolutely fascinating entire segment of the insurance industry. So if you missed that episode, it’s worth your time to catch up. You can find that episode and all other episodes on our podcast website, Hoa insights.org, on your favorite podcast platform or on our YouTube channel, but better yet, subscribe to the podcast in order to get every episode delivered right to your phone or mobile device. Well, those of you watching on YouTube can see the custom HOA insights mug that I have here, that I got from our merch store, which you can browse through from HOA insights.org, our website, or the show notes at the merch store, you can find we have some great free items like board member zoom backgrounds and some specialty items for board members, like this mug that I have for sale now as a special promotion, go to the merch store, browse through the items and pick a mug you’d like to have, and if you’re the 10th person, to email podcast@reservesday.com with your name and address mentioning episode 89 mug giveaway, I’ll ship it to you free of charge. We enjoy hearing from you, and most episodes are indeed in response to a topic you’ve recommended. So stay in contact, letting us know what questions you have or topics that you’d like to hear about. So leave us a voicemail at 805-203-3130, leave a comment on a YouTube video or send us an email at podcast at reserve, study.com but back to today’s episode. Today’s episode is my choice. Many board members are telling us they’re feeling the crush from inflation. That’s real. We know that, or the burden of managing their Association’s finances, just the burden of being a volunteer board member at a community association. So to address that, Russell’s here today to tell you about the many services available in between self management and full professional management. These in between services cost effectively help boards trying to do it all, and they also, on the other end of the scale, they offer less expensive alternatives to boards feeling the high cost of full professional management. So Russell, welcome to the program. Thank you. Robert, great to be back. Hey. Remind everyone how long you’ve been running community financials. So I

Russell Munz 4:12
started community financials about six and a half years ago, and but before then, I was and how I got into the business was, for 16 years, I worked my way up to become president of a regional management company. And during that time, I kept hearing a few, few same things, right? I asked people, why are you changing what you’re doing? And one was, they left working with their current provider because of poor response time. So communication in this industry is really quite poor, and the customer experience was poor and so unresponsive service emails that don’t go responded to phone calls. Also go to voicemail that don’t get called back, or they got called back, like a week or two later. The other thing was, people felt, or the boards felt, the they lost trust in what was happening with their money. They didn’t have access to see what was happening with their money. They didn’t get financial reports in a timely way when they had questions about the financial reports they didn’t get answered. And so that lack of trust around handling their funds was the second main reason why they made a change. And then add to that, smaller communities kept telling me they felt overcharged for the services they were getting. Yeah

Robert Nordlund 5:44
and so cost as much to run a 20 unit Association as it does a 200 seems like,

Russell Munz 5:51
yeah, a lot of the same activities still go on. Manager has to go do a site visit right at some point, they have to a board meet after hours, board meeting, usually on a monthly basis. They have to call vendors and get bids for things. No matter what size you are, you still have the same items. So you have these, these charges. But then I’ll get into, I know we can go into some more detail, but it’s, it’s people feel like they were. You know, if the managers attention gets degraded, and then they feel they have to do the work of the manager, and they’re still paying a high price. So it doesn’t work. All of these things led me to, you know, how can we solve these problems, and how can we bring, you know, larger management companies, systems and processes to solve these issues for communities, whether they’re large or small.

Robert Nordlund 6:48
Yeah, can I say it’s maybe like the 8020 rule, where handle 80% of the issues with 20% of the cost, something like that?

Russell Munz 6:57
You know, you can’t. I would say that 8020 is more probably 80% of the communities have these similar issues.

Robert Nordlund 7:08
Ah, okay, yeah, and tell me about that. Do you know how many self managed associations there are out there?

Russell Munz 7:16
Yeah. So community Associations Institute has a foundation for Community Association research, and they’ve been doing this for years, and every year it’s about the same. They say that approximately 30 to 40% of the community associations are self managed, so we’re not using professional management company, and that’s a large number.

Robert Nordlund 7:39
And yeah, I just looked it up here. My recollection is estimate of 375,000 nationwide. And 40% is 150,000 associations. So there’s a lot of associations out there with board members that are trying to do it all. You talked about the trust issue, and I can imagine that in a now number one, we believe that being a board member is hard. It’s a lot of work, a lot of things ask of you and zero pay. And from my perspective, preparing reserve studies, I see the management industry, it’s hard. Also you’re serving clients that are nonprofits. Are very careful about their money, or they’re trying to be very careful about what they’re spending on. As you mentioned, they’re price sensitive. And so there’s lots of management companies that hire managers at low entry points, and they’re just are not all that skilled. And I can imagine that that’s what you’re talking about with trust, where the board is trying to find out are do we have, can we spend this $7,000 on this thing or not, and the manager is flipping through papers, looking for a file, and saying, I don’t know. And the board is saying, how do we make a decision if we don’t have the financials? And that sounds like that’s that pressure point where you’re wondering, Where can I get to someone who who knows my numbers and cares about my numbers as much as I care about them. Is that kind of what drove you into this?

Russell Munz 9:07
It is. And you know, just having access to the information also, right? So many managers were great managers at a management company, and then they left to start their own thing, and they were solving problems, but they didn’t come out of the accounting department. So, you know, it might, they might have a strong suit of solving problems, of connecting with vendors, of getting bids, of, you know, interacting with the issues at the community, rules and regulations and things like that. And those are all great things. I started off my career as a property manager. That’s great. However you may be working with, you know, if you’re, oftentimes they don’t have the skill set for accounting. And so what happens is they start, you know, if you’re working with, you. You know, a community manager, and they don’t have the skill set around accounting. How are they going to supervise the person doing the accounting or making sure that the accounting is correct? So a lot of good managers have that, but there are sometimes when you have and this is managers and boards, they don’t know how to read the financial reports and how to see whether they one, they might not get the financial reports in a timely way. Two, they might not know how to see, look up and see, can we spend that? Or do we have these bills that we have to pay, that are we have in our budget? And, you know, how do you how much money you have left over to do on something that is not budgeted? So you have an unbudgeted expense that comes up from a natural disaster, or some other, you know, a capital repair item that comes up sooner than you thought it was going to come up. And so what’s, what’s the best way to handle that in that moment? Do you have the money out of your checking account or your operating account, or do you have to? Should you do a special assessment? Or should you do it again? Borrow from reserves, from reserves, and then some people don’t put the money back in reserves. So there’s a lot of issues that come up that they’re not quite sure how to deal with. That are accounting, you know, issues?

Robert Nordlund 11:10
Yeah, it requires a lot of financial literacy to run an association. And I think of it being and some of our listeners remember my story, and I came at it this industry, as president of our condominium association. And there were months where the financial literally, at that point in time, it was a stack of papers. And one month they brought the financials from the wrong Association, it’s a portfolio management company, and another month, the numbers were just plain wrong. They it was a month behind something like that. I forget exactly what it was now, but yeah, we need fresh information to be able to make wise decisions, and we wanted someone to look after it and care about it as much as I did. So okay, so you felt the pressure a great American opportunity. You saw the need and you created something, and you called it community financials. I would imagine you were able to do something absolutely wonderful. Have it electronic access, so you don’t have to wait for the manager to come in with stack of paper.

Russell Munz 12:16
Yeah. So absolutely correct. So okay, you know, I always share this story, like, back in the early 80s, fast food restaurants came up with the, you know, self serve beverages and fixings bar, where the people could do that, they could serve more people effectively, and people get what they want, so when they want it. This is our industry hasn’t provided that where, you know, they kind of put a wall firewall between the customer and the information. I get all the time, boards complaining, we don’t get information. We don’t have access to view information. We have. It’s like pulling teeth to get information. The information is late. My stance is, you know, obviously the technology is there to give access as much transparency and access as possible, both to the board, and then you can break that out and give it also to the homeowner, where the homeowner can see their account balance and their transactions, print out their ledger, and they can, you know, then they’re not asking the board or the manager or anybody for it. They can get that information themselves anytime a day. Yeah, and

Robert Nordlund 13:18
I’m thinking two things, culturally. Number one, it’s going to make the board member treasurer position easier, and so you’re going to have less challenge getting a treasurer to help with your association. And number two, you’re going to have less well, you’re going to have more transparency. And so you’re not going to have the average homeowner thinking, well, they might think at of course, but if they click to look at the numbers, they’ll see that that’s a lean budget, and they can see exactly where the money’s going. It’s going to the pool service, it’s going to electrical utility, is going to water utility, it’s going to all these kind of things. And I realize, oh yeah. And with probably another click, they can see that’s about what it was last year too, maybe a little more expensive, and they can see exactly why the board is saying that we need to raise our assessments 5% this year, or whatever the number is, probably that it really helps with transparency and life at the association, yes,

Russell Munz 14:15
we have a lot of customers where, where we take a balance sheet and the comparative income expense report that shows the actual versus budget and any variance for a month and year to date that gets shared with the homeowner on a periodic basis. So it’s just those two simple reports, but it allows, and some communities like this and others don’t necessarily need it, but it allows the homeowner to see, you know, we’re on budget when everything’s okay, or if we’re not on budget, that’s why maybe you might get more people turning out at a board meeting. That’s okay too, because you’re getting input. And it’s, there’s, it’s, it’s transparent,

Robert Nordlund 14:52
yeah. And I guess another thing is it’s probably going to help with continuity as you go from one board. Board, and either the entire board changes or a few people change. When you have stability, if you have something providing accurate financial information, again, that’s going to help provide continuity, year over year over year over year. Is that also a good factor?

Russell Munz 15:14
That is also a good factor? You know, there are term limit limits for many board members, sometimes you may have board members that get burned out, so you’re going to have turnover in the board. And you know, if you have one board member, and sometimes, if you’re self managing, you’ve got a board member who was doing all the work themselves, and they were a great benefit to all of the homeowners, and the community was really lucky for a long time. But if that person gets ill, or that person decides to move, you know, they no longer have the board, may not have access to the information. They might not have access to why, why did we do this, and why was it like this? Or how come we do things this way so? But if you have something that provides that continuity, then you’ve got somebody to ask those questions to while the board changes. And also, by the way, not only the continuity, but good, good financial reporting for a lot of communities, as you know that don’t save money for for for reserves. When they go to get a you know, if they need a loan, they’re not going to get a be able to get a loan with just a spreadsheet of some numbers, you know, a one page spreadsheet that somebody put together the book. The bank’s not going to loan that with that kind of information. They’re going to say, Well, what’s going on here? We need, we need to make sure that the loan is going to be paid back responsibly, not somebody just throwing together a spreadsheet and like, making deposits once a month and paying bills here and there. Yeah,

Robert Nordlund 16:48
there are so many stories out there, and I’ll just share one with our audience here. And it may sound familiar, my son obviously grew up in this household where we serve community associations to do reserve studies. And he fell in love with a young lady, got engaged with a young lady who owned a condominium, and he realized he was going to be marrying into this ownership, and started asking questions about what was going on with the Association. And learned there was a lot of nightmare about this association. People weren’t paying. They didn’t have financials. It was almost a voluntary type situation. And I think see my shoulders just going up with attention no and knowing that there are so many associations out there that are struggling to run their association. In our country, there’s still that gap between people who know that what it’s like to own a home and people who know what it’s like to rent an apartment, maybe in college or after while they’re having their first job. And there’s that in between ground that is CO owning a home and a community association. And we’ve said before here on the program that community associations present care free living because you’re sharing responsibilities. But it’s not free. It’s expensive. It takes someone and someone’s time, like you said that magic board member who is out there even sweeping the sidewalk because they like it clean. It’s Monday, and landscaper doesn’t come till Thursday, just things like that. There’s a lot of time and energy that goes into running an association, and we have to appreciate that and

Russell Munz 18:31
answer that Yes. And you know, for these communities that are self managing, we most time consuming rule and the hardest to fill from the board perspective is of volunteer treasurer who is handling, collecting money, paying the bills and doing financial reports on their own. A lot of people don’t want to be doing that work. It’s a real it’s a lot, you know, it’s more work than people will and answering questions as well as doing the activities. Maybe they’re going to the bank and making deposits and filling out deposit slips. Maybe they’re going to the post office to pick up items and their data, entering it into a system, you know, the all of these things. If you’ve been lucky to have a board volunteer do that, you know we you owe them. You know, you owe them. Huge kudos. Yeah,

Robert Nordlund 19:24
after the program, thank them. Yeah.

Russell Munz 19:26
This is a, this is a, this is a, a large job which is unpaid, and, you know, I It’s a lot of work. And if you if that person leaves, what happens with the community? You know, it’s difficult to find a volunteer to step up and take the place while doing all of those activities on their free time. And that’s where it’s kind of like where a service like us comes in. I’d say another story even, even if I was talking to a volunteer, and that’s 45 units, or something like that, there. Accounting is done by a management company accounting department. What shows up on their bank statements doesn’t isn’t the same as what’s on their financial reports. So this no good. This person has been spending 10 hours a week just creating financial reports to mimic the what they’re already paying for with their provider. And you know, that doesn’t account for all the other hours that they spend on the job or doing other, you know, board member activities. It’s if you’ll multiply whatever you could get paid for in the marketplace times that amount of hours that you spend doing this work, you know, it’s, it’s a lot, and you’re foregoing that opportunity cost, or the cost of spending time on things that you enjoy or loved ones. It’s, you know, it’s a big ask. So I think, you know, when we get we often get asked by board treasurers, they say, we’re looking to retire off the board and but we want to make sure we’ve got a good steward in place that we can hand it off to so that they can go they don’t have to do the work anymore because they’ve been doing it for a long time and they’re burned out. It’s a it’s some, it’s a real consideration for those two months. Yeah,

Robert Nordlund 21:16
and not only the hours, but I’m thinking liability also, because they’re doing something that a professional should be doing, and that’s that’s a tough ask on a board member. Well, Russell, let’s take a break here time to hear from one of our generous sponsors, after which we’ll be back with more from Russell on today’s HOA insights podcast episode to talk about what are these in between, options that associations can tap to help life at their association. Is

Russell Munz 21:44
your HOA or condo self managed and you don’t want to work as hard volunteering? Are you full managed and looking to save money, or are you looking to split the accounting from a manager’s role for better service? Let community financials handle the monthly accounting for you. We collect dues, pay bills, produce financial reports, include portals and help with other support services, all while providing awesome service, we love the opportunity to help you make your community accounting stress free with our industry leading systems and expert team. Visit our website, community financials.com to learn more. And

Robert Nordlund 22:15
we’re back. We’re here with Russell Munz from community financials talking about this in between, whole big in between section of the market where we’re helping board members try to get accurate financials, build trust with the community, and also perhaps find a way to save some money. So Russell, do you have training on you’ve mentioned some CAI training, some industry training. Do you have any training on your website?

Russell Munz 22:42
Sure, we’ve, we, the vast majority of volunteers that will come across come from all different backgrounds, right? Some of them may be first time and we’re living in a community association. Some of them might be the first time that they’re on a board. So, and they might have different backgrounds, right? So

Robert Nordlund 23:02
the community of a community association,

Russell Munz 23:05
exactly. So we we want to provide information for them, as well as when the board turns over, right, some sort of training for them. So we have online library best practices and research reports and how to guides and step by step videos and things for getting the most out of our systems as well. But it’s more more geared towards just overall, running the community and any type of questions they would have that would that would be there something that we’re going to be launching later this year. It’s called successful Hoa, and it’s a site where people will get access to that, but our, our, our customers have access to to that in order to get kind of up to speed. Okay,

Robert Nordlund 23:52
do you have to be a customer, or some of that training available just on your website now,

Russell Munz 23:56
we’re going to be opening that up to the public later on this year. Excellent.

Robert Nordlund 24:01
Well, tell me, we tempted everyone around the very beginning with a plethora of services in between full professional management and self management. We talked today about getting financial support, I know, and we’ve had on the program the owners of minutes solutions to help with getting good, accurate minutes again, taking that burden off of somebody’s shoulders. What are the things are there out there that help fill in the gap? If there are self managed associations who just want some professional help, almost like a customizing what you want absolutely

Russell Munz 24:40
first, we’ll talk about it. There’s a couple of different levels of tools and support that you can get. One is the software has the ability to make the board’s job easier. So there are, there are integrated software systems that have, you know, I that have a number of functionality. Bodies that are cobbled together by these self managed boards, or by boards in general. They use a bunch of different systems to try and do their

Robert Nordlund 25:08
their work. It’s already talked earlier about even somebody just making a spreadsheet that they created

Russell Munz 25:15
that it’s better if you have tools in one ecosystem, because then you don’t have to update everybody’s name and contact information when someone updates their email. You don’t have to update when somebody sells. It’s kind of all in this one system that that. So everything gets updated throughout. So it’s easier to manage a database like that. So you have document storage, you’ve got communication tools in there for like, obviously emails, but text message broadcast, voicemail broadcasts that you can get notifications out to the community. There are software tools that made tracking and managing violations easier, for handling Architectural Review requests, for tracking maintenance, and so all of these things make the job of the board easier and save hours and hours of time. So let’s just start with that first, right? So that’s a step up from spreadsheets and a bunch of different hop hold together pieces of software so you have one cohesive system and you’re in much better place. I think the next thing is, we get asked a lot boards don’t want to handle doing the estoppel paperwork or or doing lender questionnaires for refinance. So we have some customers where we just do that alone for them, and so that’s a separate service where we’re handling that for the board, and that board does other things. There’s also we have very popular where the board doesn’t want to have to have phone calls during dinner for maintenance emergencies, so there’s a call answering service, and so those get handled, you know, with the homeowner. And we’ve defined what things are emergency, what things are not an emergency. The board is kept in the loop through text message. If it’s non emergency, they get emailed the next day of a list of items that came in through that through that channel. So there’s a way of kind of handling those types of items in a better way than being interrupted. Then there’s next you know, this is more it might not be applicable to most communities, but there’s some communities that want whether a tenant needs to be screened prior to it, you know, during an application or a buyer before they’re able to buy. Sometimes there’s these evaluations that have to be done. So there’s a way of doing that, in a systemized, professional way too, so that the board doesn’t have to do that. You add all of these pieces up, you know, you know, I have customers that tell us that we handle probably 60 to 70% of what a management, their prior manager did. And so you can pick and choose kind of some of these things, and add on whether there are service or somebody else’s service. There are services out there, and just like you talked about, you know, before, to help the community do things like, if there’s a way of having paneling an election vote, so there are, there are businesses, but that’s what I was gonna say in terms of elections, and whether some of it’s online, some of it’s in person, it, you know, It depends on what your state’s regulations are, but that’s a, there’s a whole business around doing that also, and like you said, we need that. So there’s a, there’s a number of tools out there to make the job of being a board member easier.

Robert Nordlund 28:32
Okay, so you talked about the idea of a tool, a software platform, that puts everything together in one place, and I imagine it saves a lot of paperwork, it saves a lot of redundancy. And then you talked about, is it cafeteria plan, where you can pick and choose different things and

Russell Munz 28:52
different bills, different services you could probably add to, you know, a core set of services. So for our customers, for example, and obviously we have our CO offering of doing monthly accounting work, but then there’s others that will be added, you know, kind of to that, or we have some that just means those separate items themselves.

Robert Nordlund 29:11
Yeah, well, I would imagine that not only does tasks, but it’s good for the organizational health of the association, because it lowers the threshold of being a board member lowers the resistance, because if you have these services to support you, and the board’s not doing it all themselves, and it’s being done for a fraction of the cost of full management, all of a sudden I’m feeling the burden lifted off my shoulders, and I’m not even living in one of those associations,

Russell Munz 29:37
absolutely. And you know the again, going back to that very it takes a lot of time, especially to be a volunteer treasurer and a self managed community, but if you have these systems in place, you’ll find it a lot easier to source board members, people who will volunteer their time if, if there are efficient systems. Decisions in place and some support to allow the you know, these other homeowners, to step up and fulfill a role that’s not so painful, right? Not so time consuming, not so you know, they’ve got to reinvent the wheel. So it’s you open up a new kind of layer of potential board members to come in and help, and that’s one of the main things we hear about all the time, is it’s difficult to recruit people to be on the board, and then people feel, you know, I’m using other people’s terminology, but it feel like a life sentence. So they get off the board because nobody else will volunteer. Well, if Doing this helps to, you know, alleviate that so that other people can get involved in being on the board, but in in a way that’s not so, you know, not not so difficult,

Robert Nordlund 30:48
right? Not so onerous. Hey, we spoke about full professional management as if it’s one thing on the side. And I just realized there’s an entire segment that we haven’t talked about, and that’s an on site manager who is a professional, someone who sits at a desk, maybe in the clubhouse or something like that, who is the employee of the association, who runs a show. And that person, again, may have been promoted as the facilities manager. That person may have been the real estate agent who was offered a job by the association. That person may be a great former board member who was hired to manage the operational things, but they may not have the financial backbone. They may not have the financial savvy to do all the numbers. So would this all these services that you’re talking about, would they be nicely complimentary to a physical on site manager? Also, absolutely.

Russell Munz 31:47
And we, you know, we have many times where that physical manager, you know, is working with us, whether they’re on site or whether it’s somebody who’s a portfolio manager and has a growing portfolio, but, you know, it’s, it’s like the medical profession, where they utilize specialists in the things that they do. So, you know, the manager is great at dealing with homeowners, great at dealing with enforcing the rules and regulations, great at dealing with vendors over and, you know, and getting bins and things like that, but their strong suit might not be accounting. So then you go to the specialist whose strong suit is accounting, who’s been able to, obviously, hire and vet and train, you know, degreed accounts, and also has, you know, systems and processes that they’ve been able to invest in to make this work efficient and transparent, then you kind of combine those two, and you’ve got kind of the best of both worlds, and you’ve got stability, because people are doing what they’re what they’re best at, right? Special,

Robert Nordlund 32:51
yeah, and doing what they’re doing, yeah, literally doing what they’re good at doing. Imagine that your company, and companies like yours have the systems in place so they know that by the 10th of the month they need to have the monthly financials

Russell Munz 33:05
ready to get us the information and the bank state some of the bank statements. So then we can produce them in a timely way and reconcile them and get them to them in a timely way. So, yeah, we’ve these sort of these best practice guidelines for them in order for us to get them financial information on a specific period of time. And, you know, they get, they have all of this information that then they can use to operate their community more effective. I also say at not just the on site manager, but sometimes there’s an on site accounting person. We’ve been brought in in a lot of situations where the on site accounting person who’s retiring or moving, and they there’s not a big can pull the candidates to who are specialized in HOA or condo accounting. And so they say, Well, you know, they look to us to help fill that with our service. And you know, it’s that’s also a great solution too.

Robert Nordlund 33:59
Yeah, there may be the GM, there may be the administrator, there may be the person who processes the mail, and they may be good at those physical tasks, but they still could use some financial backbone and kind of the resources that community financials has to offer. Boy, my brain is kind of exploding on the possibilities and the resources and how this can be good for so many associations. Well, Russell, thank you for taking the time to join us on today’s program and making my brain spin on the vast number of possibilities in between the burden of running the association with all volunteer labor and full professional management, there’s a lot in between. So do you have any closing remarks for our board member audience today?

Russell Munz 34:47
I’d say that they don’t have to go it alone, and 100% self management can be daunting, but self managing with the support of a company offering 60. Plus of management. It’s very doable for a board, no matter if you’re smaller or larger. We work with both, both ends and spectrums. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s, there’s a middle, there’s a middle solution, like you said, and it’s worth investigating. So

Robert Nordlund 35:17
Russell, if someone has any questions about you or community financials. How can they get in touch with

Russell Munz 35:23
you? Sure, so thanks for asking. So best way is to go to community financials.com and they can learn all about us there. There’s a lot of information. And also, you go through the Contact Us website, contact us page of our website, and you know, we’ll be happy to get in touch with them, or they can call there’s our number there too.

Robert Nordlund 35:45
Yeah, I’m thinking for board member audience, there’s help out there, and there’s hope out there and on that. We hope you learned some HOA insights from our discussion today that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. We look forward to having you join us again for another great episode next week,

Announcer 36:05
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